ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:42 pm
Post subject: Toffzempakpe
My great-grandmother's maiden name was Kadlub (Kadłub) and she was born in Odrowaz near Czarny Dunajec in 1880. I have met some others who are researching their Kadlub ancestors in Piekielnik, just a short drive to the west. We have been stumped by an odd surname and I wanted to get some comments from PolishOrigins members.
Andras Kadlub was born in Piekielnik in 1861. On his death certificate his father is listed as Joseph Kadlub and his mother is listed as Katherine Toffzempakpe. This name seems so odd to me and I have never found anything on line that resembles it.
A little more about Andras Kadłub:
He married Verona Lattyak (unknown marriage date) and had 2 children in Piekielnik before going to America. The children were Jozef (born 1900) & Maria (born 1903). On May 24, 1904 he arrived in New York on board the Kronprinz Wilhelm. He was headed to see his cousin Albert Kadlub in Lilly, PA. Verona and the 2 children arrived in the US in 1906. Sometime after arriving in the United States, their name changed to Gaudlip.
So, fellow members, what do you think of the name Toffzempake? I am wonderng if the name actually begins with an Ł and might be Łoff or Łott and Zempakpe is another word, like a village. I look forward to your comments. If your family is from Piekielnik, or you would like to see some photos of this beautiful village, visit the Piekielnik thread in the section called Villages and towns of our ancestors' origins:
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=383
Last edited by Shellie on Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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ZenonPolishOrigins Team Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1532
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:44 pm
Post subject:
Shellie,
Do you have this death certificate to show it to us?
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:54 pm
Post subject:
Here is an image showing part of the death certificate. He died in 1939, and we have not found anyone alive who knows where the informant got the info. The funeral director had the same name for Katherine in their records. Perhaps the person providing the information was sounding out the name because he only heard the name but never saw how it was spelled?
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ZenonPolishOrigins Team Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1532
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:41 am
Post subject:
The beginning of this surname does look like Toffzemp- or Taffzemp. It sounds a little German but it is really hard to say if it is deciphered correctly because I haven't found no other references to such surname.
I don't think it is Polish "Ł" at the beginning because as far as I understand the death certificate was drawn in the USA and also neither Czech nor Slovaks use this letter.
Maybe there is someone out here who will be able to give us any hints..
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:37 pm
Post subject:
Thanks Zenon - it is quite a mystery, isn't it? I was wondering if the name originally started with the Polish Ł, and then was later mistaken for a T when seen in writing. But I think it is more likely that people heard the last name spoken, rather than remember seeing it in writing.
I regret that we did not have a chance to visit the priest and look at Piekielnik birth records during my Forefathers Traces Tour with you. I am hoping to find someone from Piekielnik who recognizes this name or has copies of Piekielnik church records that include 1861. Andreas Kadlub was born in August of 1861. Perhaps then we will finally find an answer to this mystery.
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:56 pm
Post subject:
I saw the name of this area today: Podkarpackie
It reminded me of the mystery name Toffzempakpe.
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ZenonPolishOrigins Team Leader
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Replies: 1532
Location: PolandBack to top |
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:46 am
Post subject:
Podkarpackie is the region my family come from. But it is much easier to pronounce than Toffzempakpe  .
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ShelliePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Replies: 1000
Location: Atlanta, GABack to top |
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:05 am
Post subject:
Andreas Kadlub was born in 1861 in Pekelnik, Árva Megye, Hungary. This is in the Orava region and is now part of Poland, just along the Slovakia border. This map shows Arva Megye before the border change:
http://www.maproom.org/00/32/present.php?m=0008
I have found the name Tott associated with Slovakia. If anyone has any information about Árva Megye please share it here.
Also, if you have any information about the surname Kadlub from this area, please leave a comment here. Thanks!
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Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:17 pm
Post subject: mystery Toffzempakpe
hello, i hope its not forbidden to discuss. I am new here and I was reading a lot in this forum. Here are very helping suggest, opinions and much more.
I can remember me, that I met the name Pakpe and at first I thought is a misspelling, or wrong translate. So I had cut the first:
Toffzem ~ Pakpe and play with the Letters. This are only thinks. Not a reference to a fact/match.
I was very surprised about "Telfsem". I came to a Czech site, I think.
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:lz-STp8kcXoJ:horal-fanda.com/cesty/alpy2001.html+%22telfsem%22&cd=3&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de
Some locations I know it, this are German places and this shows me, that the places became several endings. The result, cut again.
Telf~sem~pakpe
But dosnt help. Interesting are too:
The place Podkarpackie. If you look bei Wiki and change the language, is a good question, how was spoken your Toffszempakpe.
cesky: Podkarpatské slovencina: Podkarpatské
And close to your mystery name, the different typing : Franciszek, Frantiek
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