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Indexation of Translations
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Zenon
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:13 am      Post subject: Indexation of Translations
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Main page of the Indexation of Translations project

As all of you know doing translations is not an easy job. In case of old handwritten documents it is even more difficult if you have to first decipher what is written down. Names of places are not so obvious and some of them have changed in time (they might be different 100 or more years ago, especially when they were under occupation of not Polish state administration). What’s more, we have places with the same names but located in completely different parts of the old Poland, sometimes in today’s Ukraine, Belarus or Lithuania . This means you often need to use maps to be sure you use the proper location and its name.

Translation of one birth, death and especially marriage record in most cases means more than an hour work of translator. And if you add to this geography it is often more than two hours of work.

Our wonderful translators in the Russian, Polish and Latin translations’ threads voluntarily help hundreds of us sharing their unique skills polished by years of experience to help us in uncovering what is hidden behind this mysterious texts recorded more than a 100 years ago. They shed light on our family history without expecting anything in return. Thanks to them hundreds of us have their family records translated.

We have growing number of original records uploaded and deciphered in our Forum. This means that they may be potentially useful for others if they were used in their family research not only through our Forum but also if we contributed them to the one of the digitization projects.

This is why we decided to start Indexation of Translations project (see how this idea was shaping here: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=2282 ).

Let’s create indexes of the translated records to share the work of translators with others.

Let’s make the translations available not only to you who requested them but also to others who might be interested in the same places and names. Who may be your relatives...

Let’s make the translations of records searchable and easy to find for everyone Exclamation

Go to the main page of the project here to start indexing your records.


Last edited by Zenon on Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:15 am; edited 3 times in total
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:21 am      Post subject:
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This just the beginning of the project and we know that the process of indexation may probably be improved based on our common experience. Please send any remarks about the process of indexation in this thread.
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rsowa



Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:38 am      Post subject:
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Excellent! I look forward to seeing the fruits of everyone's labor!

Zenon...one question and one comment.

Question: The original "draft" spreadsheet included columns for Godparents and witnesses to baptisms and marriages. I see that the new spreadsheet format doesn't include those columns. Can you explain your rationale for not including them?

Comment: Microsoft Excel cannot display dates before the year 1900. So in order for the dates in Excel spreadsheets to display properly, they need to be formatted as pure text...NOT as a date field. There are some ways to work around that bug, but it is more trouble than it is worth.

Thanks for all your hard work!
Richard
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:37 pm      Post subject:
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The first 158 records indexed Exclamation See the effects on the Indexation Database page here http://bit.ly/po_indexation . Big thank you to Joann (JS2985 in Forum) and Megan (megsiek86) for making a great start of the project Smile

rsowa wrote:
Question: The original "draft" spreadsheet included columns for Godparents and witnesses to baptisms and marriages. I see that the new spreadsheet format doesn't include those columns. Can you explain your rationale for not including them?


Richard, one of the main lessons I took from a few projects I launched (or tried to launch) so far was: 'keep it simple'. So I wanted for the process to be as simple as possible to encourage as many people as possible. I know that adding godparents and witnesses might be useful because very often these people were family members. But it would make filling each record a little longer and might look discouraging for people considering their involvement in the indexing process.

I also took from experience and proven practices of other indexation projects, e.g. geneteka. They also do not include godparents nor witnesses in their form.

Now each indexed record includes the most crucial for researcher information: place, parish, names, dates AND links to original records and translations. If you find surname of you interest just by one click you can go to the original record (its scan) or to its translation and check immediately other details like godparents or witnesses.

rsowa wrote:
Comment: Microsoft Excel cannot display dates before the year 1900. So in order for the dates in Excel spreadsheets to display properly, they need to be formatted as pure text...NOT as a date field. There are some ways to work around that bug, but it is more trouble than it is worth.


I don't use Excel, I use its OpenOffice equivalent and it works fine there. Could anyone else confirm the problem and (possibly) fix it by sending to my email repaired Excel file Question I would upload it as benchmark then.

rsowa wrote:
Thanks for all your hard work!


It is not that hard if you think about possible positive effects it can have on many thanks to involvement of many Exclamation Thank you.


Last edited by Zenon on Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:50 am; edited 2 times in total
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Elzbieta Porteneuve
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:37 pm      Post subject:
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Zenon, RSowa,

I tried Excel, and without declaring data type "date", the dates are stored like text, i.e. 17/04/1848 (using French system with "/"). But it is definitely not a "date", because arithmetical operations on it do not work (i.e. no possibility to substract two dates).

Best,
Elzbieta
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Aga Pawlus
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:45 am      Post subject:
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Thank you very much for your commitment! The beginning of the indexation process is beyond our expectations Smile
There are already forum members, who volunteer to do some extra indexation (apart from "their" records).

If anyone from you would like to help us, please write me in this thread or to our email address: [email protected]

To avoid doing double work, I will let you know which record are still waiting for the indexation.

Best regards,

Aga
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Valerie



Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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Location: Detroit, Michigan

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:23 pm      Post subject: Indexation of records
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Hello Aga and Zenon,
I have a few records in an Excel file for a couple of villages, Huta Przedborska and Brzezowka, in the parish of Niwiska. The information was taken from microfilmed records, however, I do not have images. Is it okay to begin adding names using your Excel form?
The Rzeszow region is home to my father's family and I would like to contribute in a small way for now since these villages are not indexed elsewhere at this time.
Baby steps.
Regards,
Valerie Warunek-Koselka
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:36 pm      Post subject: Re: Indexation of records
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Valerie wrote:
Hello Aga and Zenon,
I have a few records in an Excel file for a couple of villages, Huta Przedborska and Brzezowka, in the parish of Niwiska. The information was taken from microfilmed records, however, I do not have images. Is it okay to begin adding names using your Excel form?
The Rzeszow region is home to my father's family and I would like to contribute in a small way for now since these villages are not indexed elsewhere at this time.
Baby steps.
Regards,
Valerie Warunek-Koselka


Of course Valerie, that would be great Exclamation I am sure the indexes may be useful for other descendants of people from Niwiska parish. It is not a requirement that there have to be scans. Besides, when they appear on-line in the future we can easily add them to the index.

As you say: baby steps. If taken by many, the final effect may be significant.

Thank you Valerie.


Last edited by Zenon on Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Valerie



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Post Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:42 pm      Post subject: Indexation of records
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Zenon,
Thanks for your quick reply. I look forward to the day when more records will be online and wait patiently. In the meantime, I am so grateful for what has already been done; it is a labor of love and lots of hard work.

Valerie
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:14 am      Post subject:
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Zenon wrote:
rsowa wrote:
Comment: Microsoft Excel cannot display dates before the year 1900. So in order for the dates in Excel spreadsheets to display properly, they need to be formatted as pure text...NOT as a date field. There are some ways to work around that bug, but it is more trouble than it is worth.


I don't use Excel, I use its OpenOffice equivalent and it works fine there. Could anyone else confirm the problem and (possibly) fix it by sending to my email repaired Excel file Question I would upload it as benchmark then.


Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:
I tried Excel, and without declaring data type "date", the dates are stored like text, i.e. 17/04/1848 (using French system with "/"). But it is definitely not a "date", because arithmetical operations on it do not work (i.e. no possibility to substract two dates).



We asked Joann (JS2985) who already indexed more than 100 records and used Excel about the problem. Let me quote what Joann replied:

---
Working with the date column in Excel was no problem, the dates displayed properly. I think the problem occurs when you use the cell for the year only. For instance, if you go to the Excel spreadsheet under the date column and type in 1897 it will display as 1905-03-11. So if the month and day of an event were unknown and you wanted to type in the year only you would have a problem. By including the month and day in the same cell or using 00 for unknown month and day you have bypassed the problem.
end---


So please try to use full date in format year-month-day and everything should work fine.
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Zenon
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:43 am      Post subject:
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Valerie, your indexes are already in the Indexation database: http://bit.ly/po_indexation . Thank you!

Because we received more questions like the one from Valerie we do confirm: indexes of records and translations that you have done by yourself or translations from other sources (groups) are welcomed!

Many of us in the past have gathered records from "our parish" and about "our family". We have done a lot of work but its results are available only to us (or to a few family members who are interested in that). Now by indexing your records and sharing them with others you may help a few more people interested in "your" parish or surnames.
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rsowa



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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:26 am      Post subject:
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Zenon wrote:

We asked Joann (JS2985) who already indexed more than 100 records and used Excel about the problem. Let me quote what Joann replied:

---
Working with the date column in Excel was no problem, the dates displayed properly. I think the problem occurs when you use the cell for the year only. For instance, if you go to the Excel spreadsheet under the date column and type in 1897 it will display as 1905-03-11. So if the month and day of an event were unknown and you wanted to type in the year only you would have a problem. By including the month and day in the same cell or using 00 for unknown month and day you have bypassed the problem.
end---


So please try to use full date in format year-month-day and everything should work fine.


Three observations.

First, Excel does NOT work with dates prior to 1901-1-1. Excel stores dates as a date serial number, which allows us to sort those dates and perform date arithmetic. Unfortunately, Excel's serial number begins on January 1, 1900; and negative serial numbers aren't recognized. In other words, Excel cannot do calculations with dates prior to that date. For example, you cannot subtract an 18th century date from a 19th century date to determine the person's age. Here's a better explanation of the problem with some ways to work around it, but it hardly seems worth it, since there are other alternatives. http://exceluser.com/formulas/earlydates.htm Microsoft acknowledges the problem here http://support.microsoft.com/kb/245104

Second, if you enter the date like Zenon suggests (yyyy-mm-dd), then Excel will treat the data as pure text. If you use any other format, such as year only (ex: yyyy), then you need to precede the entry with an apostrophe to designate it as text. Example: '1846

That really isn't much of a problem, since it will also permit you to sort and search on it as if it were any other text. Unfortunately, it will not be a date field, and you cannot do calculations on it. I think most online genealogy databases treat dates that way...as pure text, but I am not certain.

Third, I understand that OpenOffice and Google Docs do not have that date problem. So by doing the data entry online (Google Docs), or using OpenOffice, the dates ought to behave just like dates, rather than text only.

Richard
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:13 am      Post subject:
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Everyone,

I have no problem at all with my Excel spreadsheet, before or after 1900, yyyy-mm-dd or dd/mm-yyyy, as the image attached shows.
Maybe because it is an old version (2003) ?

Zenon and Aga,
Maybe it is a good idea to define a standard font and size for all transcriptions. Times New Roman 10?

Gilberto



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Zenon
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:00 pm      Post subject:
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Gilberto,

First and foremost thank you very much for sending your copy of Excel with more than 500 records indexed Exclamation

We will update the database: http://bit.ly/po_indexation soon with your input. Before that I want to discuss some issues related to indexes sent so far by you all. I want all of you to know what is going on behind the scene and to have opportunity to comment.

First issue, Gilberto you added additional columns with ages (or dates of births) of brides and grooms. I think it indeed may be an important information if you don't have on-line access to original record as it is in case of some LDS microfilms and ones wants to estimate date of birth of bride and groom. What do you think that we will make adding age optional and everyone who wants can add it in the vel. columns (for alternative surnames) of bride and groom (I would make appropriate modification in instruction for indexing marriage records)?

Second issue, somehow you got access and indexed records that are younger than 100 years old (from 1915 forwards). In Poland with have privacy law according to which records younger than 100 years old can be available only to family members. By publishing information about people and events related to them which happened in 1915 and forwards we would violate law. We don't want to do this. I am very sorry because you did great amount of work but we cannot show on-line the youngest record you sent.

Third issue, you indexed the records from physical LDS microfilm. Scans of the records are not available on-line. What do you think that instead of writing LDS film number in the 'Link to the scan' column we will give link to familysearch.org website where the given number is available for rent? In your case it will be: https://familysearch.org/films/lookup/products/view/film/1528670/ .

Next thing, if you have two scans for one record please paste link of the second scan to the last column 'Notes'.

The last thing, to keep uniformity of the whole database please enter dates in the suggested in instructions form and order: year-month-day (yyyy-mm-dd) with dash between them. Unfortunately, dates written for example in format day.month.year doesn't convert into "our" format.

Gilberto wrote:
Maybe it is a good idea to define a standard font and size for all transcriptions. Times New Roman 10?


You can use whatever font style and size. It is automatically converted into standard Arial when copied to the database: http://bit.ly/po_indexation .
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Magroski49
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:37 pm      Post subject:
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Zenon,

Additional columns: rather than using the vel column I would vote for inserting all additional information in the Notes column.

Privacy law issue: I do understand the problem. Please delete years after 1913.

Link to the fillm number: ok. much better, indeed.

Two scans for one record: do you mean records continued in another page?

Date format: ok. Dates were in brazilian format day/month/year in the original spreadsheet and it was my lack of attention.

I have more transcribed records in our brazilian group, but I would have to check what has already been made available in Geneteka and other websites.

Gilberto
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